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<h1 style="text-align: center;">hanselminutes #366</h1>
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<li>] LJ -&nbsp;<a href="http://hanselminutes.com/366/practical-rest-with-sebastien-lambla" target="_blank">hanselminutes podcast# 366</a>&nbsp;-</li>
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<li>]&nbsp;discussion on REST, with Sebastien Lambla (works @as consultant), 'serial seb' - hmmmmmmm - sounds like Sebestian might be 'french' which could likely explain a lot. Long time REST guy(2003/4), has openRasta svr side REST(resource oriented) framework, &nbsp;teaches classes, writing a book "Practical REST" which he is funding via kickstarter UK project,&nbsp;</li>
<li>]&nbsp;<a href="http://s3.amazonaws.com/hanselminutes/hanselminutes_0366.pdf" target="_blank">Transcript</a>&nbsp; 7 pages (pdf)&nbsp;</li>
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<li>] the majority of (devs) building web apps, dont understand how the web works.&nbsp;</li>
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<li>] they don&rsquo;t know the rules they followed to build something. They don&rsquo;t know the formalism behind how web applications are built. You have to&hellip;when you bring in ReST to a conversation, you not only have to bring in the knowledge of ReST, you also have to rework the way &nbsp;people think about how they built their web applications</li>
<li>] Perpetuated by vendors product claims. &nbsp;a lot of &nbsp;vendors using the moniker ReST as opposed to Web &nbsp;Services. its NOT rest vs soap, some vendors took a long time to learn rest and publish tools that were for the rest purist, that are in conflict with some of the simple rest rules &nbsp;</li>
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<li>] some divide in the community about exactly what 'rest' was/is and how it should be done</li>
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<li>] and rest purists/rest police,&nbsp;- with the "your doing it wrong", that didnt help the cause in the beginning&nbsp;</li>
<li>] doesnt exist any longer</li>
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<li>] blaming microsoft (middleware vendors)</li>
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<li>] Blamed somewhat on ms because of 'webforms', webforms couldnt be further from "how the web works". MS tried to adapt its web development model to its windows development model.(fair enough) MS has changed.(true)&nbsp;</li>
<li>] ms getting much, much better</li>
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<li>] programming</li>
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<li>] scott - c++ , how a window works, cleaning up after yourself, understood VB intuitively, could crank it up a notch with that understanding&nbsp;</li>
<li>] sebastion - javascript, doesnt know how to cleanup, has never had to use it.&nbsp;</li>
<li>] many devs out there - dont want to spend all their free time learning/going under the hood, happy coding 9-5, OK with abstraction, going only as deep as they need to go for the project that they are on</li>
<li>] ? = are you(dev) disabled by using abstraction?</li>
<li>] it depends, &nbsp;</li>
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<li>] the demand(market pressure) today, building good rest api's,&nbsp;</li>
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<li>] developers should know what there doing</li>
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<li>] good apis breed good apis - the more good ones that are built, the more that they will be expected&nbsp;</li>
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<li>] &nbsp;So when you see the proliferation of APIs that are happening now, they are happening because developers are learning about how the Web works, because developers are learning about how ReSTful architectures are built, and because people like them.&nbsp;</li>
<li>] People like ReST APIs. I think that&rsquo;s the fundamental. &nbsp;</li>
<li>] scott: " The Internet works a &nbsp;certain way, and you try to work against the Internet &ndash; &nbsp; that&rsquo;s when you get into trouble. I totally agree with you, that ReST APIs that feel right are ones that feel like the Internet. They don&rsquo;t feel like someone&rsquo;s &nbsp;opinion. &nbsp;</li>
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<li>] conversation ...</li>
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<li>] about his book - Practical REST - to formalize a new way of showing &nbsp;it(REST) to people. That requires a lot of thinking</li>
<li>] publishing a book - self publishing, kickstarter project</li>
<li>] fundraising for cancer, participating in UK's &nbsp;</li>
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<li>] how do restful systems fit into the enterprise</li>
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<li>] Like every other system, in an enterprise system, not quite right.] big enterprise systems, are not as enterprise-y as they sound, in the sense that a majority of banking environments I&rsquo;ve been in are grown more or less organically</li>
<li>] The reason why there&rsquo;s a lot of WCF and SOAP and WS-Security, etc., is just because everybody does it the same way</li>
<li>] If someone puts their head out and starts doing something else, no one is really, really that concerned provided you spend &nbsp;enough time going through the security reviews, the architecture reviews, and all the various bits of paperwork you have to do&nbsp;</li>
<li>] After that&hellip;you know, one of the beauties is &ndash; you use the word browser. We use ReST when&hellip;as a browser and a browser talks to. ] But, if you rethink the problem slightly and you consider that your data entry application, your business centered application, your trading application, is a browser. It just happens to have a completely different user interface to your common web browser, but it is a browser. If you think about it in those terms, ] If you rethink each of those independent systems as being browsers, then suddenly you&rsquo;ll find that there&rsquo;s plenty of places when ReST applies very well.&nbsp;</li>
<li>] Now the advantage we have with web browsers, especially in big organizations, things like certificates are already solved. Fundamentally, if you have security that is deployed across the whole of your company, it is going to be deployed for the web browser as well. That means that, when you&rsquo;re going to build a ReST client, be it that you&rsquo;re going to have a stock market application or you&rsquo;re going to have a data entry application, or maybe it&rsquo;s just going to be a web app. All those web technologies are already deployed in enterprise. So I would say that the enterprise world is</li>
<li>] more ready and available for grabs for ReST than other systems because all the heavy work has been done. &nbsp;] You arrive in an environment where the Web is already at the core of everything because everybody uses a browser all the time, everything is already web apps. ] Web security is already deployed everywhere. You are actually fast-tracking ReST adoption much, much faster than say if someone decided to create a completely new web service stack tomorrow</li>
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<li>] REST</li>
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<li>] rest - reflection of the web itself, has the properties that the web has</li>
<li>] "define things with names" -&nbsp;</li>
<li>] rest app - where the properties of 'the system' are</li>
<li>] "architectural pattern thats built on top of the web itself" &nbsp;</li>
<li>]&nbsp;</li>
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<li>] Don defines REST as&nbsp;</li>
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<li>RESTful url /sospep.com/view/article/about-rest.html&nbsp;</li>
<li>RESTful url /sospep.com/delete/article/about-rest.html</li>
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<li>] Sebestien Lambla's</li>
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<li>] <a href="http://serialseb.com/rest/" target="_blank">website</a>&nbsp;- basic, blog</li>
<li>] <a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/serialseb/practical-rest-building-hypermedia-systems" target="_blank">book project on Kickstarter</a></li>
<li>]&nbsp;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REST">Representational state transfer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a></li>
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